Ralli.net

There is a discussion about Group F in Finland going on in the main USA rally forum. We've been trying to get Group F up and running in the USA recently using Finland's Group F as our model. If you have time and would like to give any insight please visit the topic and post any opinion and such. Video is always good too. :D
http://www.specialstage.com/dc/dcboard. ... 0575&page=

This is a reposted question from that discussion.

How much do average Finnish clubmen spend on an average season out of their own pocket? Total budget, not just entry and travel, I'm talking belts, helmets, fire systems, tires, service tools, tranny rebuilds, body work, lic fees, insurance, recce, ... all of it. Now how about the low end and top end GF budgets?

Are the Finnish GF drivers (that we see really driving hard in good cars) of low, average or high income? You see where I'm going with this... does it take a big dollar effort to get noticed in GF in Finnland (just like in the US)?

What percentage of his/her annual income does the rally spending represent for the average GF Finn? How about the "top spec car" folks?

What percentage of Finnish GF cars are driven hard?

What percentage of Finnish GF cars built to a top spec?

What percentage of Finnish clubman cars are 2WD?

Given that there are soooo many license holders in Finnland, I wonder if maybe percentage wise, we in the US aren't that different when it comes to how many good-spec club cars are here and how many of our drivers are floggin them without mercy.

Do Finns just do this for fun, or is some of the time/money being spent in hopes of "making it big" someday or landing some level of sponsorship (like US Motocross or NASCAR feeder systems here)?


Just for fun:

What percentage of all US cars do you think are built to a good spec that is equivalent to the Finnish GF builds (is it safe to consider us all clubman in the US?)? What about just the US 2WD cars?

In 2WD, Malik and Bottles have pretty good cars, are there others built to that spec level? So if there are ~100 2WD cars running in the US right now, maybe ~2% are top spec builds? Does this compare to the Finns?


What do you think it REALLY cost the average US rallyist to build a car that is up to Finnish GF standards (assuming the person doesn't happen to own a prep shop and needs to pay for at least some labor)? ~$20K? Add this to the costs of the average Regional season (~$5K), then you need to spend ~$25K in you first year of serious US GF action. That probably ~50% of the average US rallyist's income? Does a flying Finn spend 50% of the family income to rally?

What percentage of US cars do you think are driven really hard (as hard as a pro would, who didn't have to worry about fixing or replacing the car)? 2-5 drivers per rally? In our fields of ~50 cars, thats ~4-8% people really flogging the equioment. Is that different from Finnland?

Grant kirjoitti: How much do average Finnish clubmen spend on an average season out of their own pocket? Total budget, not just entry and travel, I'm talking belts, helmets, fire systems, tires, service tools, tranny rebuilds, body work, lic fees, insurance, recce, ... all of it. Now how about the low end and top end GF budgets?

I don´t know for sure but I´ll estimate that it would be between 5000¤-60000 ¤

Grant kirjoitti: Are the Finnish GF drivers (that we see really driving hard in good cars) of low, average or high income? You see where I'm going with this... does it take a big dollar effort to get noticed in GF in Finnland (just like in the US)?

Most drivers are low or average income, but the sponsors.. :D

Grant kirjoitti: What percentage of Finnish GF cars are driven hard?

100% or at least the drivers are trying very hard, don´t know about the speed then..

Grant kirjoitti: What percentage of Finnish GF cars built to a top spec?

Not so many, maybe 15%

Grant kirjoitti: What percentage of Finnish clubman cars are 2WD?

All GF cars are 2wd, front or backwheeldrive

Grant kirjoitti: Do Finns just do this for fun, or is some of the time/money being spent in hopes of "making it big" someday or landing some level of sponsorship (like US Motocross or NASCAR feeder systems here)?

GF is usually for drivers who do it for the fun of driving, young drivers who want make it for the top usually drive group n cars in national championship races but of course there some who have started their career in GF example Harri Rovanperä (Mitsubishi WRC team driver)

Grant kirjoitti: What do you think it REALLY cost the average US rallyist to build a car that is up to Finnish GF standards (assuming the person doesn't happen to own a prep shop and needs to pay for at least some labor)?

In this season GF champions car, BMW M3 E36, will cost about 50000¤-60000¤ (not a fact...only rumour)

Remember that the speed comes from the driver, not from the car itself. Have fun!

PS. All these number are my own estimations

Grant kirjoitti: What do you think it REALLY cost the average US rallyist to build a car that is up to Finnish GF standards (assuming the person doesn't happen to own a prep shop and needs to pay for at least some labor)?

Maybe about 20000$ - 40000$ most cars will be ?
My estimate.

We don`t really have real clubman -class here, like british do. Group F cars are 2wd cars (you can make 4wd cars for FWD or RWD), but rallying in "non professional drivers classes" we have maybe 10-15% 4WD cars.
Maybe good idea for your group F (Group U? ) is legalise in bodywork rules that you can do FWD to RWD? So you can get little bit more modern cars without turning into F2 -type rallying and having not "is that historic or group F" -problem.
And be carefull with technical rules; -i think- we maybe have too free rules, costs are high for really potential car.